Podcst

Sober AF, Michael Scott Phobia, and How to Politely End a Conversation

The Curiosity Shop with Brené Brown and Adam Grant

Vox Media Podcast Network

May 21, 2026

Show Notes

Marking a major personal milestone, Brené shares what led her to 30 years of sobriety and Adam asks what it taught her about change. From there, they pivot to why Brené can’t tolerate the cringe of The Office —and Adam’s take on how to engage with it. Finally, they deliver a masterclass on the art and science of ending social interactions, sharing the ultimate shortcut to a graceful exit. This is great!


You can find The Curiosity Shop on ⁠YouTube⁠ and ⁠Instagram⁠ (@thecuriosityshop).


0:00 - What Are We Talking About Today?

5:00 - Sober AF: Celebrating 30 Years of Sobriety

- Grieving for Joy

- Why Can’t Brené Watch The Office?

- Loving or Hating Violating the Rules

- The Art of Leaving Conversations Respectfully

- The Shortcut to a Graceful Exit

- What Adam and Brené Are Watching Now



Gottman Institute - Research and History - Drs. Julie and John Gottman (Founded 1996)


The Love Prescription, Part 2 of 3 - Brene Brown with Drs John and Julie Gottman, 2022,Unlocking Us Podcast


The Power of Vulnerability - Brené Brown, 2010,TED Talk, TEDxHouston


Everything You Think You Know About Addiction Is Wrong - Johann Hari, 2015,TED Talk, TEDGlobalLondon


TheFresh Start Effect: Temporal Landmarks Motivate Aspirational Behavior - Dai, Milkman & Riis, 2014,Management Science


Daring Greatly: How the Courage to Be Vulnerable Transforms the Way We Live, Love, Parent, and Lead - Brené Brown, 2012,book, Gotham Books


I Love Lucy: Job Switching - Arnaz, 1952,CBS


The Office: Scott's Tots - B.J. Novak, 2009,NBC


BenignViolations: Making Immoral Behavior Funny - McGraw & Warren, 2010,Psychological Science


Office Ladies - Fischer & Kinsey, 2019-present,Audacy (Podcast)


DoConversations End When People Want Them To? - Mastroianni et al., 2021,Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences


Politeness:Some Universals in Language Usage - Brown & Levinson, 1987, Cambridge University Press (Book)


Want to Improve Your Relationship? Start Paying More Attention to Bids - Logan Ury, 2026,Gottman Institute


TheVirtues of Gossip: Reputational Information Sharing as Prosocial Behavior - Feinberg, Willer, Stellar & Keltner, 2012,Journal of Personality and Social Psychology


Jury Duty - Eisenberg & Stupnitsky, 2023-2026,Amazon Prime Video (Television Series)


Jury Duty Presents: Company Retreat - Eisenberg & Stupnitsky, 2026,Amazon Prime Video (Television Series)


The Madison - 2026,Sheridan, Paramount+ (Television Series)


Landman - Sheridan, 2024-present,Paramount+ (Television Series)

OpeningUp Closings - Schegloff & Sacks, 1973, Semiotica


Closing the Conversation: Evidence from the Academic Advising Session - Hartford & Bardovi-Harlig, 1992, Discourse Processes


CollaborativeStrategies in Chinese Telephone Conversation Closings - Sun, 2005,Pragmatics


EndingSocial Encounters - Albert & Kessler, 1978, Journal of Experimental Social Psychology


Relations in Public: Microstudies of the Public Order - Erving Goffman, 1971, Basic Books (Book)


Sorryfor Your Kindness: Japanese Interactional Ritual in Public Discourse - Ide, 1998, Journal of Pragmatics


GettingDown to Business: Talk, Gaze, and Body Orientation During Openings of Doctor-Patient Consultations - Robinson, 1998, Human Communication Research


NegotiatingLast-Minute Concerns in Closing Korean Medical Encounters - Park, 2013,Social Science & Medicine


Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Sober AF, Michael Scott Phobia, and How to Politely End a Conversation — Podcst